Capitol Media Services

 PHOENIX — Rejecting police concerns, state lawmakers are trying to make it even easier for people to carry hidden weapons in their vehicles.

 Legislation awaiting action by the House would spell out that anyone can carry a firearm anywhere in a vehicle, visible or otherwise.

 Right now, having a concealed weapon is restricted to those who have a state permit. That means completing a state-approved training course as well as fingerprinting and a background check.

 Lawmakers have been chipping away at that for years. For example it’s OK for someone without a permit to have a loaded weapon in a trunk, glove box or map compartment.

 HB 2389 would expand that exemption to cover the entire vehicle.

 It already has been approved by the House Judiciary Committee. Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, said the current law about where someone can have a gun is confusing, not only t individuals but even to police.

 “You shouldn’t have to have a table of yes-no locations taped to your dashboard so you can figure out where you lay the weapon whether it’s legal or not,’’ he said.

 And Kavanagh said the way the law is now crafted can make criminals out of otherwise innocent citizens.

 He said someone without a permit might put a weapon on the ca seat, where it is visible, only to have it inadvertently covered by a jacket that fell over it. Or he said a motorist who has to stop short could find that the gun suddenly winds up beneath the seat.

 The change is being pushed over the objections of the stat Department of Public Safety.

 “We’re not really worried about the good, honest citizens out there,’’ said DPS Lt. Bob Ticer. He said he has never heard o any case where a police officer arrested someone because a jacket or a newspaper fell over a weapon on a car seat.

 “We’re worried about the gang members, the criminals, who put guns underneath the seats, hide them,’’ he said, making traffic stops more dangerous for police officers.

 Rep. Eddie Farnsworth, R-Gilbert, said he would not support anything that puts police officers at risk. But he said Ticer’ concerns about easing the laws are misplaced, saying that gang members are probably not obeying the existing statutes right now.

 “Is it common practice for criminals to put their guns up on the seat when they’re pulled over or an officer comes up to the car?’’ he asked.

 “It’s hard to determine what they are going to do,’’ Ticer responded. And he said while gang members may not respect the law in general, they might decide not to risk getting arrested on a weapons’ charge.

 But Ticer said this legislation essentially says even a gun under the seat would now be legal — a gun he said someone might decide to use if it looks like an arrest on some other charge is imminent.

 “They can get to it readily,’’ he said. “The officer doesn’t know it. We worry about that.’’

 Farnsworth remained unconvinced.

 “I’m having a hard time believing that a criminal that’s actually going to shoot a police officer under any circumstance is going to be worried about whether he has the gun in glove compartment or whether he has it on his person or whether he has it on the seat,’’ he said. “If they’re willing to kill a police officer, they’re willing to hide the gun under the seat.’’

 Gary Christensen who lobbies for the Arizona Rifle and Pistol Association, said he does not believe changing the law will affect law enforcement safety. He said police officers would retain the right to ask occupants of a vehicle if they are armed and, if so, to hand over their weapons during a traffic stop.

 If the vote by the House Judiciary Committee is any indication it may be difficult for foes to stop the bill.

 That 6-4 vote came along party lines, with Republicans in favor and Democrats opposed. And Republicans have a majority in both the House and Senate.

 But the final word would be up to Gov. Janet Napolitano,  Democrat, who has vetoed some changes in gun laws in prior years after objections from police departments.